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RE: Swordfishing 101

TITLEWAVE — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:48:03 GMT

[quote][b]Ron Mexico (5/4/2008)[/b][hr]

When we started fishing swords I used Blue's rig because of how well the squid was presented and it was readily available on-line. The first year we used that rig we caught our fare share of fish, hell we even tried it with a 20/0 circle hook which worked ok. The problem with that rig other that it takes a while to rig each bait is that when the fish hits and starts to swim off and you start to move the drag into the strike position to set the hook (same way blue describes) is that the floss that is holding the mantle to the crimp on the leader does one of two thing pulls out of the squid or parts from the crimp. Either way the squid slides down the leader and bunches up in the gap of the hook preventing the hook from getting a solid bite and setting in the fish. So where does this leave us? Well like Blue said there is more than one way to skin a cat and everybody has a rig they feel confident about and that is the 50 percent of the battle. After trying about a dozen different rigging techniques. I have settled on what is call the tag in method for my night time drops. I tie a bimini in my main line and to that I go with 15' to 20' of 200-300lb mono wind-on-leader with a snap swivel crimped to the end this allows me to quickly switch from trolling baits in the day to swording at night and visa-versa. Now for the actual rig. I use 3 to 10 feet of 200-400 lb fluorocarbon, not because it is harder for the fish to see but what I like is abrasion resistance and the stiffness of the leader (which makes it easier to rap up the next day since it has no memory). But for the purpose of this rig the stiffness is what I like. After I make a loop w/ chaff guard crimp one end to attach to the snapswival on the wind-on. I then slide two more sleeves on to the leader one I leave free to float up and down the leader the other I use to crimp my hook on. Once you crimp on the hook (I use 8 to 10/0 jobo, but hooks are a matter of preference) you should leave a two to four inch tag end above the hook. I then cut the tag end at an angle so that it forms a point (you can even sharpen it with sand paper if you like). Now to rig the squid first I stitch the head to the mantel, this is easy just stuff the head into the mantel and with a rigging needle go through the mantel and head and then back through the side with your standing line. Then cinch down and secure it with a pyramid knot. Next you lay the squid down flat and with the soft side facing up. And place your hook on top of the squid so that you can see were you should enter and exit the body cavity (I like the hook to exit about an inch to a 1/4 above the head. Once you have hooked the squid the only part of the hook that you should see is eye and the bend were the hook has exited the bait. Now push the sharpened tag end all the way through the squid from front to back just above the eye of the hook and repeat again at the top of the mantle. The squid should now be sitting pretty straight on you leader, you may need to twist your hook and do a little fine toning but the squid should be secured to your hook and leader. Now with the extra sleeve from earlier, slide it over both your standing line and the tag end down to the squid. If you have left enough of a tag end there should be no reason to crimp down on the sleeve it should just hold the bait secure to the two lines. But if you like crimp down and clip the remainder of the tag end. But by leaving the tag in place you can change out old bait for a fresh one quickly and easily which quite often makes all the difference in the world. I am also a big fan of dying the squid red. If you have ever caught one or had one jump in the boat you will notice that they are blood red. On a long soak a rigged squid will turn white and not look very tasty. With that said changing out baits often is the way to go. Other great baits large silver eel, rigged Spanish and Boston mackerel, live hard tail small black fin, yellow fin tuna and Speedo tuna. I then deploy them behind the boat fishing them from floats with chem. sticks attached so that I can see each bait if the float goes under or lays over on its side you have a bite. I fish four floats and two baits straight from the tip, six in total and one pitch bait incase one swims up to the boat. I fish from 500 to 50 feet down. If you have any questions send me PM. I do a seminar for west marine once a quarter. I know my spelling sucks, but no need to rub it in. Good luck and I hope to see you on the water.

Angelo DePaola

I sell Boats[/quote]

I use the tag end method as well after flossing up squid in the dark for 3 seasons. With this method you can rig and re-rig squid in seconds. One this to add , is I leave the a much larger tag-end than 2 to 4 inches , which can be cut back when you see how big the squid you are rigging. I also use nothing but the tag end, main leader and hook to hold the squid in place without using floss at all which is what makes the rig so easy and effective.

dying squid: i think there is some merit to this . When you catch live squid they change in color from dark redish coloration to clear with spots. So by dying a frozen squid different colors you are putting back the natural color they normally have when not frozen.Also i can after having tested coloring the baits ,that once you get a bite doing this you tend to repeat what made you sucessfull in the past. Plus it takes a few seconds to dye them and for sure doesnt cause you to not get bites.

Chumming : is something i started but cant say it helps and or hurts. One thing about chumming is , i use only frozen squid chum blocks i bought from bionic baits. I think using anything but squid may bring in sharks. Now when at the Rigs and Floaters , use of meat type chums bring more tuna than shark which is fine but for swords ??? I know of atleast one fish we caught chumming pogies, caught on a pogie so they do eat fish ! I have yet to rig anything other than squid, but i know boston mackrels , mullet and hardtails all catch there fair share of fish.

Leader Lights: I use both the battery type, and the stick lights in conjunction. I put the battery operated one at the swivel 15 ft from the bait and use a glow stick on the leader 5ft from the squid. I also started using the disco type lights that turn different colors, but one color lights worked fine.

Weights:I use 16 oz to 48 oz depending on current. I attach the weights to the battery operated light which has a loop on its bottom. I then push a rubber bank for the aaproriate weight size and push it throgh the loop . I then use the rubber band to loop through weight , and loop the weight through the loop. The weight will break off if you get a big enough fish on the line.

Boat lights: I run a rumblefish sword light , which are the best submersable light i have yet to use . The light has internal weight so it sinks on its own and has a very long heavy-duty cord. My light is a shade of purple/white , and then run a hydroglow on the other side in green. I think the lights attract bait , which inturn make you boat a floating bait ball. We all know that bait brings fish , and i have caught just about everything in the lights over the years. Swords will swim up to the lights at times which is pretty cool to see them swimming below.I have had anything from huge schools of squid to flyers and tinker mackrel. When the bait is in the lights , its a sure sign swords are not far.

For those who may want to know where i bought my gear from , for the most part Tek at reelproshop has been super helpfull with lots of S Florida Sword knowledge.

RE: Swordfishing 101

tunapopper — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:04:28 GMT

[quote][b]bottomfisher01 (7/22/2008)[/b][hr]I also read in another post using circle hooks you wont get as many gut-hooked fish. Is that true?[/quote]

That is the point of a circle hook; to provide a solid hook set in the corner of the mouth, which on most fish is the best spot, and to decrease the mortality rate on released fish.

RE: Swordfishing 101

bottomfisher01 — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:18:07 GMT

I also read in another post using circle hooks you wont get as many gut-hooked fish. Is that true?

RE: Swordfishing 101

Xanadu — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:50:06 GMT

[quote][b]bottomfisher01 (7/22/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Xanadu (7/21/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]bottomfisher01 (7/21/2008)[/b][hr]Is their an advantage of using j-hooks???[/quote]

I don't think so, but if the fish hits and misses the hook when it tries to eat or wraps itself in the leader, a j hook might catch on the fish.[/quote]
Would circle hooks?[/quote]

No, and that's why I intend to use them more often. A non-offset circle should run until it hits an edge or corner and then make purchase. Wrapping around a belly isn't going to hook it and hurt the fish. With the number of small and foul hooked fish we've seen I'm not concerned about missing a strike as I am killing a bunch of short fish.

RE: Swordfishing 101

tunapopper — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:11:53 GMT

I've started using Mustad 39984D wide gap circles and I'd say I'm getting a more solid hook up. They seem to grab a lot more meat in the corner than a normal circle. Usually I use mustad 7699D offset J's but I think I'm going to use the wide circles more often now.

RE: Swordfishing 101

bottomfisher01 — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:33:08 GMT

[quote][b]Xanadu (7/21/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]bottomfisher01 (7/21/2008)[/b][hr]Is their an advantage of using j-hooks???[/quote]

I don't think so, but if the fish hits and misses the hook when it tries to eat or wraps itself in the leader, a j hook might catch on the fish.[/quote]
Would circle hooks?

RE: Swordfishing 101

Harry Brosofsky — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:57:59 GMT

[quote][b]The Blue Hoo (5/4/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ron Mexico (5/4/2008)[/b][hr]

I am also a big fan of dying the squid red. [/quote]

the only problem i have with dying squids red is this: at the depth which your squid is presented, red is not even visible. it would show up black, as red does not penetrate that far into the depths (whole visible spectrum stuff). this is why i dont usually fool with dying my squids red[/quote]

That's true about red not transmitting well at those depths, but we don't know what spectrum the swords see in. For example, what appears red to us in the visible spectrum may look completely different in the IR or UV spectrum. Ever seen pictures of a flower as a bee sees it? Looks completely different that what we see in the visible spectrum. What I do know is that red dyed squid do indeed catch swords, and in fact outperform other colors we've tried.

Harry

RE: Swordfishing 101

Xanadu — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:25:46 GMT

[quote][b]bottomfisher01 (7/21/2008)[/b][hr]Is their an advantage of using j-hooks???[/quote]

I don't think so, but if the fish hits and misses the hook when it tries to eat or wraps itself in the leader, a j hook might catch on the fish.

Woody, your point about red light disappearing is accurate. however, when you're using the cyalumes or Lindgren Pittman lights near the bait, the red would be visible with the artificial light source. Also, the squid tend to change colors as excited and red is their color for feeding. When the baits are wiggling up and down in the water or as the LP light changes from blue to white to green.... the squid probably appears to be chaning color. JMHO, but that's why we use the color change lights and dye our squid.

RE: Swordfishing 101

bottomfisher01 — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:50:44 GMT

Is their an advantage of using j-hooks???

RE: Swordfishing 101

David Ridenour — Mon, 05 May 2008 02:18:47 GMT

Great post Bullshooter! That is one night you will never forget. Hopefully if I get down there this year I can have a similar tale.

RE: Swordfishing 101

Bullshooter — Mon, 05 May 2008 01:06:59 GMT

My only experience with swords was a heckuva evening. The weekend after the Destin Rodeo ended four years ago, I launched out of Destin, my three dogs and I and headed out to the Edge. After trolling most of the day, I ended up at the 50 fathom line due south of my house in Navarre. After seeing the only frigate bird of the day, I started drifting the 300' depth. I put out chum for two hours and fished four rods. At sunset I had out a 50W with a big chunk of bonita; an old 6/0 with a double drop rig with squid on one hook and northern mackerel on the other; a 6/0 flylining a cigar minnow; and an 850SS flylining a northern mackerel. At dusk I tied each rod in, and laid down on the deck. I hadn't had a single strike all day, but the weather just kept getting better and better as the day wore on. I woke up at 7:15 with my first 6/0 bowed over and line burning out (no clicker on that old reel). By the time I got the rod loose I felt the fish hit the bottom and turn with the line quickly paring way. I checked the depth finder and I was in 400' water. I got that line back in and lost the bottom hook, top hook still there. 6/0 #2 started clicking slowly, and when I got the rod loose, the line went slack. I reeled it in and the cig was gone. The 850 bowed over and line screamed out under the stern. I got the rod loose and cleared the lower unit. Two billfish jumped simultaneously and tail slapped when they hit. In the moonlight water splashed 10-15' high. The moon was hanging over a misty, foggy flat sea. A few seconds later both fish jumped simulatneously again, but my fish was still heading SE and fish #2 had split heading south. That was the last time I saw either fish. I got the rod in a holder, cranked the outboard, and headed SE. Soon the fish turned back to the north and dove. About half an hour later my fish swam by the boat just out of the light from the spreader. So close but not quite. Twice the fish dove to the bottom and sulked. I was sure I'd lost the fish both times. I was working the boat angle and got the fish to move again both times. The fish was coming up to the top the third time, and it was wearing out. It was reversing course every 10-20 seconds. I kept working the boat and rod to keep a good angle, and it ended...... Two hours and 20 minutes into the fight I lost him. I reeled in over 200yds of 30# and found my 8' leader had been cut in half. No frays. I was so psyched. The adrenaline rush followed by boredom followed by rush for that long. And I was that close. I had the digital camera set up for pictures when I got him close enough to release. I had been talking to my wife, my buddy in NC, and my brother in MN on my cell phone when the fight got boring. And I thought I had him. It was a long 40 some mile ride back to Destin Marina. I had gotten three strikes in about 2 minutes, still hadn't caught a thing all day, but it was the most exciting fishing day of my life. I had all four baits out at 40', the depth of the thermocline, the only place I marked fish all afternoon. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I didn't know you have to run 50 miles south to fish swords in 2,000' water. Sorry to ramble on and on. That was far and away the biggest fish I've ever fought. I did it in my 21' Aquasport, on an 850SS outfit, 23 miles south of my house.

RE: Swordfishing 101

The Blue Hoo — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:12:31 GMT

[quote][b]Ron Mexico (5/4/2008)[/b][hr]

RE: Swordfishing 101

Ron Mexico — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:12:04 GMT

Angelo DePaola

I sell Boats

RE: Swordfishing 101

bellafishing — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:05:17 GMT

Nice post Woody! I think we might try and get in on the daytime sword pioneering as well. There was a big article about it recently in one of the Saltwater magazines and it went into pretty good detail about the gulf specifically. I was impressed! Can't wait to get out there and give it a try!!

RE: Swordfishing 101

mpmorr — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:17:32 GMT

[quote][b]David Ridenour (3/8/2008)[/b][hr]If I go to south Forida this summer I'm going to give it a try. I have a small boat and wouldn't feel too comfortable 50 plus offshore at night. However down south I can do it within around 20 miles or less. I've always loved night fishing. Good tunes, cold brews, salty breeze and just being out there under a star filled night. It don't get much better than that. Hec sometimes the fish get in the way if you get lost in your thoughts.

Close your eyes and go there..............I'm there right now.[/quote]

Great post David, and very informative thread Woody. Very nicely done. Cant wait to get back down. I am dying over here!

RE: Swordfishing 101

David Ridenour — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:53:49 GMT

If I go to south Forida this summer I'm going to give it a try. I have a small boat and wouldn't feel too comfortable 50 plus offshore at night. However down south I can do it within around 20 miles or less. I've always loved night fishing. Good tunes, cold brews, salty breeze and just being out there under a star filled night. It don't get much better than that. Hec sometimes the fish get in the way if you get lost in your thoughts.

Close your eyes and go there..............I'm there right now.

RE: Swordfishing 101

tunapopper — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:25:37 GMT

Never thought of doing a livie that way but always down for something new. I'm going to take some live bluefish out there and try them out, they seem to stay pretty hardy in a big livewell. Hell those swords are bluewater catfish they'll eat anything.

RE: Swordfishing 101

Xanadu — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:07:17 GMT

[quote][b]tunapopper (3/8/2008)[/b][hr]Yeah that first squid rig is about the most simple one to make and is easy for anyone. My favorite though is the egg weight rig.

Take a section of leader, slide a 1 oz. egg weight on followed by two sleeves and your hook. Thread the mono through both sleeves like you might do to put spacing between a hook and trolling lure with the egg weight above (DO NOT CRIMP YET). Measure where the egg weight will rest at the tip of the mantle and the hook exiting just out of the base of it above the head. Adjust your sleeves to this length and crimp. Thread your leader through the tip of mantle and pull the egg weight up inside, the weight will stop at the tip. Stitch hook eye in place as well as head to body and your ready to go.

I have't trolled for them yet but am planning on tryin next weekend if the weather cooperates. I have two of those mold craft sword specials and am planning on pulling them at around 4 knots or so down deep. Will let you know how that goes.

Thanks for the credit hoo

Chris Vecsey[/quote]

THat's exactly the same way I rig mine only I use a tri-color bead instead of the lead. We've pulled the glow in the dark Moldcrafts and a special Bart lure the old man sent a couple years ago. It glows and runs good really slow, but no joy.

If you;re using live bait, I like to wrap the bait with the leader in a spiral. Hook pointing up in front of the dorsal and stitched on with rigging thread and then sewed on at the tail.

RE: Swordfishing 101

Chasin' Tales — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:52:54 GMT

http://www.360tuna.com/forum/f24/swordfish-101-a-236/

RE: Swordfishing 101

tunapopper — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:24:41 GMT

Yeah that first squid rig is about the most simple one to make and is easy for anyone. My favorite though is the egg weight rig.

Thanks for the credit hoo

Chris Vecsey

RE: Swordfishing 101

hebegb — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:12:06 GMT

That is one thing I am very anxious to try...Swordfishin that is....

Hell right now I am anxious for ANY fishing!!!

Great post, very informative BTW :toast

Swordfishing 101

The Blue Hoo — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:57:55 GMT

I have had a few requests lately on how to rig up leaders, baits, etc. for swordfishing. There are many ways to do it, depending on your resources, skill level, time, etc. but here are a few we have found to be successful on our boat. Much thanks to Chris Vecsey at Top Gun Tackle as well as Wade (Downtime2)

as for sword rigs, we dont do anything overly fancy on our boat. we have 2 main rigs we use. on both of these rigs, the leaders are pretty much the same. i like to use around 15' of 300-400# leader. i havent really noticed a difference between flouro and mono (maybe because of the dark?) so i just grab whatever i have readily available.

the first one is relatively easy but most people lack the materials to construct it; this first rig can be seen at http://sportfishingmag.com/gulfswordrigs

i kinda like this first one so long as i take the time to rig them up while everyone is eating dinner inside the salon. i'll rig up around 4 or so in about 20 minutes....the floss helps hold the squid up....as in, keeps the mantle from "bunching" up much like a slinky or sock, if that makes sense. this can also be accomplished with copper rigging wire, but i prefer rigging floss. the key here is matching the hook size to the squid that you are using. for further help rigging this leader, either contact chris vecsey at top gun tackle in orange beach (251 981-3811) or myself.

as for the second, start out with the same leader. 15' of 300-400# leader, crimped on with chafe tubing at the hook; and with a loop crimped at the tag end. i'm not sure the size j-hook, (11/0 or 12/0) but it's big and a bit longer on the shank side than what i would normally rig plastics on....i believe it's meant for pulling horse ballyhoo. as for baiting it, swords are not like some fish in that, often they will turn their nose up at your offering if isnt cosmetically appealing. we will spear whatever we have on the boat, on the hook. it may be anything from 4-5 boston macks on the hook, or a squid (live if they've shown up under the lights); a big fresh dead blackfin or bonito, etc. doesn't have to look pretty.

as for the lights, we dont waste our time usually with the expensive lindgreen-pittman lights (or however you spell that company). they work, but they have not proven any more effective than just your standard cyalume "snap-sticks." i attach these at the swivel (top of the leader) with copper rigging wire. very simple. various other boats i work on will stick the lightstick inside a gatorade bottle and float one near the surface, but i really havent seen those in awhile so i cant comment on them. the weights also go at the swivel. now the key is to let it drop SLOWLY. if not, the bait (all depending on current-just like bottom fishing. i use anywhere from 12-32 ounces) will helicopter around the leader and light stick and prove useless. i will sometimes attach the weights with a rubber band, but it honestly just depends on how much lead i brought aboard. we usually dont keep a whole lot aboard cuz we dont like to fool around with bottom fishing all that much. the last few trips i ran, i attached the weights with rigging floss attached to a life-saver. i'm sure you've heard of this method, as the candy will dissolve in a couple of minutes and then the weights will break off to a watery grave. basically, once you get your bait at its desired depth (i like to stagger my baits at 150, 250, 350 feet down (100 foot intervals) ), let it sit and then that weight will break off. the bait will slowly rise to the surface. if not hit, it usually takes about an hour for the bait to float back to the surface. redeploy as desired. if you're on a bigger boat, hang the lines right out of the outriggers. this just keeps them out of the props and hanging vertically. keep your drag lever VERY light. i keep mine just above freespool, with the clicker engaged. and then i pop a monster or a redbull and sit out and either cast poppers to yellowfin or just chill to a little Squizz on XM radio. swords will often take very subtle inches of line at a time....this is when they are usually whackin the shit outta the bait with their bills. DO NOT TOUCH THE REEL AT THIS TIME. wait til that puppy starts screamin, and then very slowly but deliberately move the drag lever closer (but not all the way) to strike. fight fish accordingly. i think this pretty much covers sword fishing as we do it on our boat; sorry for the long, drawn-out post. this is often much easier to show in person, and i will be happy to show anyone how to do it next week either at my place over in orange beach or at whatever place we meet up for wednesday night dinner.

As for swordfishing during the day, apparently this practice has been utilized by the guys over in the Mediterranean for a while now, and to great success. There is simply no reason why these fish only feed at night. However, because this practice really hasn't caught on in the northern gulf of mexico, there is simply a lack of evidence to prove that it works or not. My theory? It will work. Same methods, same baits, same depths, same "fishy" areas; be it around a rig or the steps, etc. Stay tuned for a report in the next few weeks; I am very anxious to try daytime deep dropping for swords.

As for trolling at night for swords, moldcraft actually makes several of their lures in glow-in-the-dark paint schemes. Once again, we haven't tried it so I am not in a place to say whether it works or not. Something to think about next time you're bored at night and have some extra senior wide ranges in glow laying around....

Edit: While drifting at night, especially around a well-lit up rig, there simply is nothing better than rigging up a live flier thru the lips, and setting him out on a drift line behind the boat. No weights. I typically use a stout spinning rod (everyone should know by now I use my heavy spinning rod for EVERYTHING), but if decent size yellers have been spotted in the area, let that baby out on a 50w. Flying fish are like crack cocaine for yellowfin. You should not have a problem with this line becoming entangled with your sword lines.